Can my marriage be saved? In this episode of The Jennifer Hargrave Show, Jennifer welcomes veteran counselor and advocate Candy Markham for a powerful and hopeful conversation about marriage, communication, and the warning signs of divorce. Drawing on decades of experience and training in the renowned Gottman Method, Candy outlines the “Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse”—criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling—and explains how these negative communication styles predict relationship breakdowns.
Listeners will learn not only how to identify these harmful patterns but also practical antidotes to shift their dynamics and reconnect in meaningful ways. Jennifer and Candy explore the importance of soft startups, self-regulation, and the influence of family-of-origin dynamics on current relationships. They also discuss the reality that sometimes relationships end—and what healthy endings can look like.
The Gottman Method for marriage counseling focuses on strengthening friendship and managing conflict with evidence-based tools. This conversation explores love maps, repair attempts, softened startups, and conflict de-escalation, and shows how Dallas couples can build shared meaning and practical rituals to reconnect when stress is high.
Packed with humor, compassion, and practical wisdom, this episode is a must-listen for anyone who wants to understand themselves and their relationship better—whether you’re in the thick of conflict, questioning your connection, or just hoping to strengthen your partnership.
Transcript:
Jennifer Hargrave:
Will your marriage end in divorce? That’s a question a lot of people ask themselves. My guest today is trained in the Gottman Method. Candy Marcum has been a licensed counselor working with families since 1981. Not only is she well known for her work with families, she’s also an advocate and was one of the first licensed professional counselors to work with the LGBTQ+ community.
I’m thrilled to have her here today to talk about the things you can do to help change the dynamics if, in fact, your marriage is heading toward divorce. Candy, thank you so much for taking time to be here with me today.
Candy Marcum:
It’s wonderful to be here, and wonderful to meet you.
Jennifer Hargrave:
It’s great to meet you too. I’m excited because I’ve read a lot about the Gottman Institute and the research they’ve done. Let’s start by talking about what those four patterns are that may indicate divorce is imminent.
Candy Marcum:
Sure. So, Dr. John Gottman and his wife Julie studied thousands of couples and found recurring patterns in their communication. From that research, they developed what they call the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. These are communication styles that, if you live in them—not just visit—will cause real problems in your relationship.
The first is criticism: “You never do anything right.” “You always leave the dishes in the sink.” That kind of communication.
The second is contempt: “If you were as smart as I am, you’d know this is how you load the dishwasher.” It’s a superior, dismissive attitude.
The third is defensiveness: “Yeah, maybe I didn’t call, but you didn’t take the trash out and you let the kids run wild.” You deflect instead of taking responsibility.
And finally, stonewalling, which often happens when someone is emotionally flooded. They shut down, turn away, and stop being able to engage. It’s not that they won’t hear you—it’s that they can’t.
Jennifer Hargrave:
Wow. And when you’re flooded, your heart rate is actually elevated, right?
Candy Marcum:
Yes, exactly. Often your pulse is over 100 beats per minute. You’re physically overwhelmed. That’s why it’s so important to self-soothe and take at least 15 minutes to calm down.
Jennifer Hargrave:
Let’s talk about antidotes. You mentioned criticism first. What’s the antidote to that?
Candy Marcum:
The antidote is a soft startup. Gottman’s research shows that how you start a conversation sets the tone. If you begin with blaming or raising your voice, it will likely stay there.
So instead of saying “You never help with the kids,” try saying “I’m feeling overwhelmed and I need some help.” Use “I” statements. That invites connection rather than conflict.
Jennifer Hargrave:
That makes so much sense. And contempt?
Candy Marcum:
Contempt is trickier because it’s often masking a vulnerable need. Instead of putting someone down, say what you really need. “I’m feeling unsupported and I need help making some decisions.” That opens the door to connection.
Jennifer Hargrave:
And defensiveness?
Candy Marcum:
Take responsibility. Even if it’s just for a part of the issue. Like in basketball, when the ref calls a foul and the player raises their hand. That’s accepting accountability. “You’re right, I didn’t call when I said I would.”
Jennifer Hargrave:
And for stonewalling?
Candy Marcum:
Self-soothing. Recognize when you’re emotionally flooded and take a break. Let your partner know: “I want to talk about this, but I need a few minutes to calm down.”
Jennifer Hargrave:
It sounds like in many couples, one person might be more prone to criticism and the other more to shutting down. Do you usually see those dynamics?
Candy Marcum:
Yes, usually one gets “big” and one gets “small.” But they’re both experiencing the same coin—just different sides. One pushes forward and the other retreats. That’s why couples counseling is so helpful. My job isn’t to tell them who’s right or wrong—it’s to help them learn healthier ways of communicating.
Jennifer Hargrave:
You said something I found interesting: that people often pick the right partner. But in those early years, it’s common to wonder, “Did I marry the right person?”
Candy Marcum:
If you never ask that question, you’re not in touch with your feelings! Everyone should wonder, “What have I done?” That’s normal. But in general, I believe people do partner well. The real challenge is learning to live together. Romantic partners often have complementary personalities—not always similar ones.
Jennifer Hargrave:
But there are times when the relationship becomes toxic. How do you know when it’s time to get out?
Candy Marcum:
Three reasons:
- Financial danger – Your partner is damaging your financial stability.
- Emotional danger – You used to feel confident, now you’re full of doubt.
- Physical danger – Abuse, obviously.
But here’s something important: Don’t say, “As long as I love them, I’ll stay.” Love alone isn’t enough. You need consistency, respect, and integrity. If you wait until the love is gone, they may leave you first.
Jennifer Hargrave:
And love can wax and wane. So just not feeling love in the moment doesn’t mean it’s over.
Candy Marcum:
Right. It may mean you’re mad or burned out—or need to take care of yourself. If you’re constantly seeking validation from your partner, that’s something within you that needs to be explored.
Jennifer Hargrave:
You also said a relationship is made up of three parts—me, my partner, and the “us.” That really resonated.
Candy Marcum:
Yes! How each individual is doing affects the relationship. And then there’s a fourth influence: everyone else—like our families. We bring in patterns we learned as kids, whether we’re copying them or doing the exact opposite.
Jennifer Hargrave:
So true. I remember the “men must have short hair” rule in my family. When my teenage son grew his hair out, it threw everyone into a tizzy—but no one ever questioned why that rule existed.
Candy Marcum:
Exactly. We inherit so many unspoken rules. Here’s a story: A woman cuts two inches off a leg of lamb before cooking it. Her mom did it. Her grandmother did it. Turns out, grandma only did it because it wouldn’t fit in her pan! And yet, it became a tradition passed down without question.
Jennifer Hargrave:
That’s such a good story! And it highlights why therapy is so helpful.
Candy Marcum:
Yes. It’s called talk therapy for a reason. When we talk and really listen, we gain understanding. I may not change how I see the world, but I can understand how you see it. That makes a huge difference.
Jennifer Hargrave:
And it’s in that space we start noticing our patterns and how our upbringing still shapes our behavior.
Candy Marcum:
Absolutely. Relationships show us where we need to grow. If your partner never triggers you, you probably picked the wrong partner. Conflict is a sign of growth and opportunity—if we have the skills to navigate it.
Jennifer Hargrave:
And that’s where the Gottman Method really shines—it’s not about assigning blame, but about helping couples have better conversations.
Candy Marcum:
Exactly. That’s all it is. Better conversations.
Jennifer Hargrave:
Even if a marriage is ending, you still need those skills—especially if you’re co-parenting. Learning how to communicate respectfully is a lifelong skill.
Candy Marcum:
Yes. I believe many divorces could be prevented if couples sought help earlier. Workshops, counseling, learning how to self-soothe and listen—it all makes a difference.
Jennifer Hargrave:
Before we wrap up, do you have a message of hope for someone who’s in a tough place in their relationship right now?
Candy Marcum:
Yes. Just because you’re angry or misunderstood doesn’t mean it’s over. Love gets you through the first few years. After that, you need communication. The good news? These are learnable skills. So don’t give up. There is always hope.
Jennifer Hargrave:
Thank you so much, Candy. This has been such a wise and insightful conversation.
Candy Marcum:
Thank you, Jennifer. It’s been a pleasure.
Jennifer Hargrave:
To learn more about Candy Marcum and her counseling practice here in Dallas—and across the state of Texas via telehealth—check the link in our description. And don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Thanks for being with us!
Compassionate Dallas Divorce Attorney, Jennifer Hargrave
Dallas Divorce Resources
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- Can My Marriage Be Saved? Kim Bowen’s Advice
- Conflict Resolution for Couples
- BIFF Communication for High-Conflict Situations
- Collaborative Divorce Quick Facts
- How Collaborative Divorce Helps Protect What Matters
- Amicable Divorce: Save Your Family and Children
- Stop a High-Conflict Divorce War
- Divorce Negotiation Strategies: Winning Without War
Don’t Face This Alone – We’re Here to Help
Hargrave Family Law – Compassionate Dallas Divorce Lawyers
Hargrave Family Law was founded by Dallas divorce lawyer Jennifer Hargrave with a strong mission in mind. Using non-adversarial techniques, our firm advocates for you during this challenging life transition in a way that helps you protect what matters most. Reach out to our team of compassionate Dallas divorce lawyers at Hargrave Family Law for the support you need to navigate divorce and other family law matters. We offer a complimentary case evaluation to start your journey with us. Together, we will work towards safeguarding the happiness and well-being of your family, allowing you to write your next chapter with hope.
